The Organization Standing Up for Trucking in Washington D.C.

Jared Flinn: You're listening to the Bulk Loads podcast, your number one resource for everything bolt freight trucking. Hey guys, Jared Flynn with the Bulk Loads podcast. Got Tyler with me. Tyler: What's going on? Jared Flinn: Oh, dude. Do you have or we have an awesome truck feature. Tyler: Yeah, we do. Today we are featuring Andy Taylor with Taylor Transport LLC out of Windfall, Indiana. And Andy's been a member with us on bulk load since 2014. So I mean 10 years, a long time. Yeah. But this truck is. I mean it's sweet ride. It's. Tyler: We were just talking about that. The, the color match combo. Yeah. Just the truck and the trailer. Any, any of them I'm just a big fan of. And this one is super clean. Looks like it's just all polished up with that chrome shining and everything. Jared Flinn: It's one long nose too. Tyler: Yep, yep. Jared Flinn: That's the angle of the camera. Is it really that long? Tyler: It's probably that long. Jared Flinn: How long is that? Tyler: I don't know for. Jared Flinn: Is that like. It's got to be 80 inches, 70 something inches. Tyler: Yeah. It's good looking ride. Jared Flinn: Yeah. No sharp rig and like the stacks straight up and. Great looking truck. Tyler: Yeah. Jared Flinn: So cool. Awesome. Well, thank you for being a member on the boats podcast as well. For almost 10 years. If you would like to get featured on simply add your photo. You can do it anywhere that you can contact us. So podcastoloads.com you can drop it in any of our social media links. You can even drop it down in the notes or in the show notes below this and we'll be. Jared Flinn: Or the comment section and we'll put that in there as well. Tyler: Yeah, Yep. Jared Flinn: So cool. Well, moving on. Oh, actually a couple things, man. I've been on the road traveling and wanted to share a couple things. Last week I was at a Convoy of Hope event. It was actually in the great state of Hawaii. I've never been there and was just an incredible, incredible experience. I think we've. Jared Flinn: I've kind of taken some of the things I've learned from Convoy Hope, these conference or these events and we try to push it into our conference and we'll talk at the end of the show about that and getting ready for that. But just had a great time. This is just a picture of my wife and I. It was one of the last nights we were there. Awesome time. You all know we love Convoy of Hope. They're based here in our area, Springfield, Missouri and what they're doing to serve people out there, they have the disaster relief, they feed almost I think over a half a million Kids a day. They have an agriculture initiative, but they're doing. Jared Flinn: Doing such cool things. We want to make sure and promote them and showcase them out there. And though we will be at our conference again this next year, we had them there if you were at our conference. So, yeah, thank you of Convoy Hope, but yeah, I wanted to share that. And then last but not least, it's deer season. Tyler: It is deer season. Yep. We just started. We just announced our big buck contest in the office yesterday morning. And I think a lot of the guys in the office are excited about that. Jared Flinn: Well, this picture I want to show and it is to brag a little bit, but when I was 15 years old, I bagged a buck of a lifetime. And there's good and bad. Like this thing is. I mean, this was a 17 point that I got on our farm back home. I will never, ever shoot a deer this big. There's like a less than 1% chance. So it was awesome that I got this thing so young. But even today, my brothers, we still. Tyler: Talk about like way too early. Jared Flinn: Yeah. Like, hey, remember when you shot? You know? And we've. My brothers have harvested some nice bucks, like 10, 12 pointers. But we still always go back. Still is not that 17, but yeah, I wanted to share this, that it's awesome. I think now, like I'm. I want my. My oldest has gotten a button buckets first year two years ago. Jared Flinn: In the last year, he got a seven pointer. But like we have a nice 12. Well, I think it's a 10 pointer roaming our farm and I'm like hoping I can get him of that deer. So good luck to you deer hunters out there. I would love to see pictures. Tyler: Yeah, actually, I don't know if we. Jared Flinn: Could do that on. On our social media. And maybe we can get Garrett to throw something. Tyler: Yeah, send us on Instagram or Facebook. We know that you're going to post them on social media anyway, so go ahead and tag us and we'd love to see them. Jared Flinn: Should have done a big buck contest for our audience. Tyler: We should have. Jared Flinn: Maybe next year. Tyler: Yeah. Yeah, that would be good. Jared Flinn: Yeah. Awesome. Tyler: Cool. Jared Flinn: Well, getting onto the show today, I bring on Louis Pugh. And actually, I looked it up. It's Pugh, it's Welch. I had to make sure I said that right. But Louis Pugh, he is the executive VP of the ooida. And I just want to say, when I moved to Kansas city back in 2005 and started working for Bartlett, I knew the OIDA was based up there just east of Town and Grain Valley and wanted to learn more about them because at that time a lot of our truckers that were hauling for us at bulk or, excuse me, at Bartlett were members of the Oida. So I started doing research and kind of learned a little bit about their history and actually we became members as well just to learn. But we know that a lot of our members on bulk loads are members in the Oida. Jared Flinn: And so I wanted to bring Louie on today and really kind of talk about the Oida. But they've kind of evolved and you know, Jim Johnson, the original founder, he passed away not too long ago and so it's taken some new leadership. But still they are at the heart of serving small owner operators and representing them on Capitol Hill and really just some of the things to help small business truckers. Tyler: Yeah, and I think like Lou said in the episode, there's, there's a lot to be represented on. Like there's plenty of issues that they're fighting back on. You know, you got the speed limiter mandate, you got the EPA stuff that's going on. You know, he was talking about the fuel search surcharge that they were fighting back in the day. So there's just so much going on and it really gets me excited for our conference because we're going to be talking about a lot of this and we're going to have experts come to our conference to talk about all these nuclear verdicts and you know, everything like that. But I think this is a simple way that you can kind of get involved and make sure that your voice is heard is, you know, $45 a year is not that expensive. So to be able to join this membership and be able to voice your opinion and make sure that, you know, these guys are fighting back on issues that you back, I think it's just so important. And don't quote me on it, but Louie had a quote in there that said that if you're not at the table, you're on the table. Jared Flinn: That was good. Tyler: Yeah. And so I think, yeah, just viewing politics as a who, you gotta make sure that your voice is heard. And like you said that farmers and truckers are not. It's hard for everybody to agree on one thing, but if you can get involved somehow and voice your opinion, that's the way to go. Jared Flinn: It's cool. When you go to truck shows and probably Matt's more than anything out in Louisville, like the amount of truckers, you still see some of the old school guys wearing the Oida, the black jacket with the emblem on the back. Tyler: I want one, man. Jared Flinn: I know, man. Maybe we can find one, a vintage one. Tim Sullivan, though. Tyler: Yes. Jared Flinn: Remember on our site, actually, his trucks on our. On our home age. But I remember when he came to our booth, he had on Oida, like. Tyler: A bunch of patches on it. And we just need to make a bulk loads jacket. Let's just make our own. Jared Flinn: Oh, man, that's a great idea. It's kind of like a bomber jack, like with patches. Yeah, maybe that'll be down the road. So cool. We need to get. I don't know if you reach out to them, but we need to have them at the conference as well. Tyler: Yeah, yeah, I will for sure. We'll get them there. Jared Flinn: So. Okay, that's enough of us rambling on. So with that said, here is my conversation with Louis Pugh with the O idea. Louie, thanks for coming on the bulk loads podcast. Lewie Pugh: Hey, it's my pleasure. Thanks for having me. Jared Flinn: So you're the executive vice president for OIDA? Lewie Pugh: Yeah, that's the title that. I guess $5 nowadays will get you a cup of coffee anywhere. 50 cents. Jared Flinn: What is so with that title? What. What does that mean? What do you do? I mean, what's your main role with oida? Are you at the very top? Lewie Pugh: No. Todd Spencer, who's been here for almost forever and, you know, and helped build the association. He was the executive vice president prior to me under Jim Johnson, which was one of our founders and. Jared Flinn: Yeah. Lewie Pugh: Patriarch. Him and Todd built this. Kind of built this place together. And Todd kind of oversaw the land, the magazine, and the government affairs stuff. Todd or Jim. The business. But anyway, Todd. Todd became president in 2018, and I became executive vice president 2018 as well. Lewie Pugh: And both Todd and I both have trucking backgrounds. Todd, you know, that's what. That's what makes OIDA different from all these other organizations and stuff you hear out there. OIDA was started by Truckers in 1973. Small business guys during the airborne embargo, and a few truckers got together, they went out to D.C. and thought they were going to fix trucking's problems and come back and go back to trucking. And I jokingly say, but it's kind of true. Here we are 51 years later, still fighting some of the same fights for small business truckers and employee drivers. Lewie Pugh: And a few of them had a vision and decided to create oida. And with the help of lots of folks and members and building up. But we realized to be in Washington, to make a difference, you had to have a footprint there. You had to be a known commodity and it took a long time. But over the last 51 years, we went from just a few truckers to 150,000 members across the United States, Canada and a few even overseas. We represent small business truckers and employee drivers. Our membership is very diverse. I don't, I don't think we have. Lewie Pugh: I don't think there's anything out there getting moved that we don't have some members helping move. So it's, you know, pretty cool. We got lots of guys in your business. My background of course is trucking. I came from the Ohio Valley over in southeastern Ohio, mainly a flatbed background. Did pull tanker a little bit and also pulled frac sand for a little bit. So that's kind of in you guys as Bailey Wick of bulk loads for industry. Jared Flinn: Yeah, talk about. So 1973, Jim Johnson and few others kind of got this. They went to Washington. But what were some of those early on issues that they were in Washington trying to get straightened out or trying to get change for the independents. Lewie Pugh: Fuel surcharge was one of the big things. And they got, you know, they were out there because fuel prices were out of hand and out of control. And they were able to get ICC to step in Concrete's first fuel surcharge to help small business guys. And over the years, I mean, we got a bunch of money back from the state of Alabama for small business carriers. Tennessee was down there. We went after Tennessee in the 90s, I think, and got some stuff. And there's just been the truth in leasing laws for guys who at least two motor carriers, you know, owner operators, all those truth and leasing laws, those are because of Oida, because back in the day, motor carriers just paid truckers when they felt like it. Or owner operators, I should say they, if they had them. Lewie Pugh: Because back in the day, most guys were leased and they just sort of pay when they wanted. There wasn't a lot of oversight or all they could charge what they wanted. They could have escrows and never really paid them back. So Oida was key and led the charge and got some of the leasing rules and moving forward, you know, we have an office in D.C. now. I'm four lobbyists down there and a PR person. You know, we're on the front right now for parking, speed limiters. It's broker transparency, all this epa, EV stuff and autonomous vehicle stuff. Lewie Pugh: That seems kind of crazy. Insurance minimums, there's never, there's never a shortage of things to fight back against and. But you know, I Was proud. We just had our annual membership meeting a day before yesterday and taught our president. Like I said, he's been around here since 1976. You know, he Folks, Oida has returned more than 100,000 or $100 million back to small business truckers and lawsuits because that's the other thing we do. We found out that sometimes you can't win with the government so you got to lawyer up, I guess for lack of better terms. And we've had to sue some motor carriers, we've sued some states and some other folks and by doing that we, like I said, we've been able to return $100 million back into the pockets of small business men and women driving truck out there. Lewie Pugh: So we're proud of that too. We, we don't like to go to court. You never know. We've had some losses there too. But sometimes it's necessity. And the problem is for a small business guy. And this is why I got involved in Ottawa in 1996. I joined, I was, I bought my first truck at 22. Lewie Pugh: I was 22 years old. Joined Oida because another owner, operator Kenny Bell, Pennsylvania told me I should belong. So I did. And because we don't have a voice, we can't afford to be in Washington D.C. and take the time or go to CVSA and all these other crazy things going on. So that's where oada, I mean I find myself a lot being the loneliest voice in the room or the only voice in the room on some actions because I'm the only guy there representing little guys, the big fleets, they have people go, you know, they have people there all the time arguing for what they want and trying to get support for what they want. Most of the time that doesn't necessarily mean the same thing that's good for us. In fact, a lot of times it's a hindrance to small business. Lewie Pugh: And so that's where belonging to O R D and being a member. I know that there's things out there that we lobby for and ask for that not everybody agree with. I'm sure you got guys who blow the pull bulk. I know the heavier stuff gets a little touchy. Jared Flinn: I wanted to bring that up. Lewie Pugh: But we have to look what's good for best for all trucking because we represent all, all parts of the industry and we understand trucking is diverse. But we have to as truckers, you know, I mean there's things I was, sometimes I'd call it, I'm like what are we thinking here? But when you Explain it and have time to explain it. Yeah, okay, I get it. Because you got to put yourself in everybody else's shoes. And, you know, that's the problem. We have as truck were just like farmers. And I grew up in a farm. I have a small farm now. Lewie Pugh: We can't get two truckers or two farmers to agree about anything. I don't know, maybe prices are too low. Other than that, we can't agree on any a lot of times on anything. And that's where, unfortunately, it's been tough. It's tough at times, and we get taken advantage of both in agriculture, but trucking and transportation by our government. Because probably trucking and farming have the two strongest voices and the biggest muscle to flex out there, but we don't do a very good job of flexing it sometimes. Jared Flinn: Yeah. Wow, that's really good. I've never heard that, but you're exactly right. Lewie Pugh: Well, we need the farmers to feed us and we need the truckers to get the food to the grocery store. Jared Flinn: So, yeah, you know, talk about Louie for people. Again, A lot of people know who Oida is, but talking about there people can join and there's a membership involved. Can you just kind of walk through that process and kind of. What are the, you know, the benefits? I know you mentioned the lobby, but just like high level, if you're a small trucking company, you join Oida. Oida. This is kind of what's next. This is what you get. These are the benefits and the perks of being part of. Lewie Pugh: Well, first and foremost, it's $45 a year to be a member. If you call in here after watching this and you say, you saw this and saw me, will give you a $10 discount. So I'll throw that out there to anybody who's interested or thinking about or even renewing. If you're already a member and want to renew, you tell them you saw this. Call our membership department. They'll give you $10 off, you know, but. But when it comes down, you know, like I said, besides the advocacy stuff, It's. It's. Lewie Pugh: It's $35 or $45 a year, and everybody pays that. I mean, that's another thing that makes us different than the American Trucking Association. Stuff like that, they charge by the size of your fleet. So of course they're going to side with whoever gives them the most money. That's where we're equal. It's the same for. We're all. We're all truckers here. Lewie Pugh: And, you know, that's the one thing Todd Spencer always reminds people because we get little special niche groups and stuff, always trying to, you know, support you. Well, we support all truckers. So, you know, and that's the thing. All truckers at the core, we all kind of have the same issues. Ours, flexibility. Now as a service parking. Hey, some of this transparency stuff with brokers getting paid, you know, fuel prices, a lot of these things. No matter what you haul, we all share the same. Lewie Pugh: We share these core issues and stuff in trucking. So you get that. You get a magazine like comes out nine issues a year, landline. It's mainly keeping you up to date on what's going on on a regulatory and legislative front across the country, both state and federal. There's also some interesting articles, but again, it's to get the word out of what we're working on, what we're doing. We have programs here at oida for members. We offer truck insurance, which I know there's both guys out there saying, well, you won't insure me, because we usually don't insure dump trucks because they fall over a lot. Jared Flinn: Well, we have an insurance program that we do insure them so we can just push them our way. Lewie Pugh: So, yeah, but we. We have insurance. We offer members insurance. We. It's our insurance company. We have life and health benefits here. Occupational accident insurance. That's a big thing because, you know, if you're an owner operator, you can't get workman's comp. Lewie Pugh: And so we offer what's, you know, occupational accent, which I strong. I know a lot of guys don't buy it. I think they need it. And it's one of those things, you don't need it till you do. And I used to be in that mindset. And then I did get it, and thank God I did because I fell off a trailer and busted my collarbone, was off work. And it was. That was very welcome and very helpful. Lewie Pugh: So like I said, I know pulling bulk stuff, you're climbing up and down on ladders and messing with cars. There's always a chance of a slip and fall every day. So it's just something to think about whether you buy ours or someone else's. But we have that. We have some other health stuff. We have a drug testing consortium here. You know, small guys. I know. Lewie Pugh: I mean, we try to start programs out of need and, you know, that's where all these come from. We fought back against the drug and alcohol testing back in the day because we thought the government was unfairly pointing its truckers as a bunch of druggies. Because that's what they were saying. That's why they needed this. We don't believe that. But anyway, it passed. It's a law and we understand that. So we created a program here at OD Consortium, you know, because if you only got one or two trucks, you're going to pull yourself all the time, you know, so you can join it. Lewie Pugh: Pretty low price to come into our drug consortium. We have a permitting and license department here for members. We also have what we call the occ. It's kind of a back office because, you know, if you have your own authority now you're on freight, you have to keep driver files and truck files and maintenance files and your MCS 190 and all these things that certain things have to be updated and permitting. Well, we have a thing here, you know, that you can join and be a part of and they'll keep all that stuff for you straight in a database and when things become due, because again, I know being a small business guy, you forget about these things because you're out trucking and you're trying to. So it'll send you reminders like 60 days out, 30 days out. Certain things are needing renewed. You need to put in a file. Lewie Pugh: If by some chance you get audited, we can electronically transfer all that to FMCSA so they can overlook for the audits and stuff and help you that as well. So we offer that. The biggest thing I. And then we have lots of discounts. We have a fuel card, which is one of the best in the country. There's not even. There's no monthly charge for it. There's a charge when you sign up for it of like $25 to run a background check. Lewie Pugh: And then from then on, the only charge is if you use it. There is a small swipe fee, but there's no monthly fees or anything like that. A lot of fuel discounts and mom and pop, small mom and pop places, along with some of your major chains as well. But we, because we know small guys a lot of times like to use smaller places. I did. So we tried. We try to have a little bit of both, but it's a very good fuel card. We just launched a tire program, a discount on tires. Lewie Pugh: And not only does it help with truck tires, but also personal tires and also for those guys. I know a lot of bulk guys have farms, agricultural tires. Oh, nice counsel on them too. So that's available for our members. And then the biggest thing is our compliance department and I tell everybody it's like having your own safety department for $45 a year. My guys in compliance, a lot of them were truckers, some were not. But they have a good understanding. They know the rules, they know the regulations. Lewie Pugh: If you want a contract looked at, if you're having problems with a load or a broker or, you know, you're thinking about leasing to a motor care and you want to contract, like any stuff, you know, call in here. I mean, it's crazy. If you want to know how to spec, axle spacing and stuff like that, or questions on how to service or buy or how to do a data queue, these guys can help you with that. That's what they're here for. They're not attorneys and they're going to tell you that. But we see they understand the contracts. They know what to look for in contracts, broker care agreements, they know the rules of collections and all this kind of stuff. And they'll help you and walk you through that kind of stuff. Lewie Pugh: So that's why I said, if you got a question on rural regulation, you're not sure, you call into these. And that's free. That's free. Jared Flinn: That's all part of the service. The $45 a year you get that for. Lewie Pugh: That's why I say you can get a safety department for $45 a year at Oida. And them guys are great and they're nice guys and they want to help. And, you know, they get more frustrated probably than I do with some of the stupid stuff that happens out here because they're on the phone every single day, all day long with members in here. The horror stories of the ways they've. You know, there's all kinds of people out there trying to cheat truckers, and they get their stories almost every day. And there's some heartbreaking stuff out there. But yeah, so those, you know, from an overview, those are some of the big programs and stuff. And like I said, all. Lewie Pugh: And I remind people, if you spend money at Oide, your money's going to advocate for you in Washington, D.C. and on state levels as well. Because that's all of our profits. That's what we were just. That's our, you know, our mission statement is fighting for the rights of truckers. And that's what we were started for in 1973, and that's still our mission today. We have all these other programs, all these things, but it all goes into advocacy. That's my number one thing here at Oida. Lewie Pugh: I oversee our advocacy and our membership programs and stuff like that. It's kind of my bailiwick. And so yeah, I go to D.C. a lot and it's very, very important because if you don't have a place at the table, you're on the table. It's just that simple in government. And you know, one of the big things we're working on on the state level right here in Missouri we're gearing up next year is non consensual towing. That's another freaking thing. It's a killer to small business truckers. Lewie Pugh: And you know, just for those who don't know, a non consensual tow is if you're involved in an accident or something along the highway and highway patrol calls a wrecker out to pull to get you off because they got to get their highways in to get your truck off the road. You don't get to call and barter or pick who you get. You just get. And unfortunately we've gotten legislation in Tennessee and we've got some legislation in Maryland and a few other states. Missouri. But most of the states out there, it's wide open and these people can charge whatever they want to charge and they know it. I had a tow bill from Pennsylvania this year. They charged $9,000 heat humidity charge because it was 98 degrees in the summer. Lewie Pugh: Yeah. And plus a 10 administration fee. So. Yeah. And this was a truck that just. He hit the jersey barrier in the middle, busted his front left hub off. But I mean didn't. It was easy, it wasn't a rollover. Lewie Pugh: He just rolled in, hooked up the truck and took it. And it was a nine, like I said, nine thousand dollar heat and humidity charge. Jared Flinn: Oh yeah, we obviously, I mean we've seen the articles and we've even talked about it on our show about this, these predatorial tow services. We've actually had bulk loads members that have started their own tow companies just to combat and offer better services than some of the ones that are out there that are really bad at bad players in the game. Louie, I want to ask a couple questions. So the oida, I mean being around for 50 years, how many. I know you talk about the membership. That's a lot of stuff you guys are doing. How many people work in that office or at the corporate office to represent that many members? Lewie Pugh: Our headquarters there in Grand Valley, Missouri, just outside of Kansas City on Interstate 70, exit 24. And also we have truck parking. So if you're ever rolling through and you need a place to take a nap or you want to stop by and say hello or whatever, we do have truck parking out here so. And we always welcome truckers because you know, we love truckers. 365 days here to IDA but I have about 275 employees here in the office. And you know the great thing about OADA's employees, I tell everybody I put them up against anybody's because they love, they know what they're here for. They feel the passion, love the passion and you know, they know that we're here to make a difference in people's lives who most people are trying to, you know, fleece or take advantage of or whatever and they get it. And so and the one thing we proud of ourselves on, no matter how bad your day is in trucking, you call here, you're going to get a friendly voice on the phone and someone will try to help you. Lewie Pugh: And sometimes we can't but we'll, we'll do our best but if we can't, we're going to tell you straight. You know, that's the thing we tell people. Sometimes we have to tell people things they don't want to hear. But we're not going to sugarcoat it or a lot of people or give them false hope either. Jared Flinn: You're Talking about the 150,000 members, you know, over the last 10 years and really last six, seven years we've do a lot more truck shows. We've gone to mats, we've actually set up booths and it's always cool to see the guys walking around with the Oida jackets. Like you can always like they stand out there and we've seen I've even come to your house booth and talk to you. But correct me if I'm wrong, how's the, the young, I would say the younger generation truckers coming in. Most of the guys I see, it's the older generation guys that are wearing those jackets. How your demographics as far as new members come in or just say younger, newer trucking companies compared to the guys that have been in it for a while. Lewie Pugh: We're getting them slowly. I mean as we know trucking's a gray haired job I guess to a point. I mean there's a lot of seasoned truckers out there. I guess I'm turned into a seasoned trucker too. But so there's lots. So our whole industry sort of slowly transforming and needs to and yeah, I mean we've, it's a challenge because younger people, they don't have the same mindset about trucking that older people do. And of course like I said in the beginning, we were talking A little bit ago, it's. It's hard at Oida sometimes because we are so diverse with trucking. Lewie Pugh: So diverse. What one wants, the other doesn't. And, you know, we try to weed through this and get what's best for everybody, the greater good. And so, you know, and you even get that in age diet, you know, with. Because what older guys like me know or want or see are different than what younger people want or see. And we've really been in the last three or four years trying to shift our demographics some. You know, this whole Internet and, you know, there's all these people getting out there and having YouTube channels and all this other stuff, trying to find out who these people are and get with these people and do it ourselves, because that's what, you know, we talk about it for years and years and years. People just came to Oida because we were the only game in town. Lewie Pugh: We were putting out the only way you could get news and what's going on in Washington, D.C. and stuff like that. And now there's all kinds of people putting it out. Unfortunately. Unfortunately, there's a lot of misinformation that gets put out as well. That's the problem. And that gets really tough for us to kind of disseminate the bad from the good. But we're working on it. Lewie Pugh: But, you know, we're getting younger members. We're putting some new things in place. We got some podcasts or look, we got new people in our marketing department, some younger people coming up with new ideas, you know, and I think we're all struggling in trucking. I mean, just like you talked about Mats, I remember when you go to Matt's and it was shoulder to shoulder and you couldn't really move through that place. And it's like, it's a great show and it took up. You couldn't see it all in three days. And it's a lot smaller now. There's not as many people there. Lewie Pugh: We don't get the amount of members there that we once did, which I think part of that is it's much easier to become a member, too, because of online and all these other ways. But, you know, I think trucking in a hole is having to kind of learn a new way for younger, newer people. And I mean, look at, you know, young. Young people don't want to get into this industry like they used to. I mean, I couldn't wait to be a truck driver, so I ever want. I. I jokingly say, but it's true. I saw smoking abandoned. Lewie Pugh: I never Wanted to be anybody trucker from then on. Truth. Jared Flinn: That's awesome. Lewie Pugh: You know, and I can't imagine, I mean, I got out right before elds and I just can't imagine what it's like for these guys with elds and all this and all these problems that we have now in the last six or seven years. But, you know, there's a big demographic of truckers. They don't know any differ, you know, they don't know what the good old days were, you know, with any of that stuff. And a lot of them seem to be happy. I mean, when ELDs first came out, we got gazillion complaints, and of course, OIDA was on the forefront fighting back against the mandate. And we push, push, push. We sued, we took it all the way to the Supreme Court, and unfortunately, you know, we fell short. We had bills in Congress to stop funding and we had lawmakers that were. Lewie Pugh: Said they were going to support it and then last minute didn't. But I mean, we were the lone ducks. Nobody was there. Just us fighting this on our own, everybody pushing back. And then once it passed, then all these people like, oh, my God, what happened? You know, and then we start getting all these calls and complaints. And that happened probably for a year or two, but we don't even get that many calls and complaints about ELDs anymore, which really kind of surprises me. But again, on the flip side, I feel like older guys that don't want them are running older trucks that don't have to have them. And there's, like I said, there's a lot of people out here, younger people, they don't know any better or any different. Jared Flinn: Yeah, yeah, that's good. A couple of things I wanted to just talk about kind of Washington related. Well, maybe one's not, but I watched a video. You were up in Washington, I think, back in August, talking about the W9 independent contractor rule. I know that's gotten a lot of tension, but talk about oida's kind of stance on that and kind of where that is today in Washington. Lewie Pugh: Well, I want to start by saying nothing's foolproof. Okay. But of course, I'm sure you're well aware we have one opinion. The American Trucking association has another opinion. Jared Flinn: I read that article. Lewie Pugh: Yeah, they're real good at saying how we're, we're, we're. We're putting the knife in the back of our small business owner operators wanting to do away with the model. We feel that that's what they want to do, but they want to just Put controls and chains on small business carriers. When the IC rule came out the first time, this, the one that's, this is to replace. Under the Trump administration, the American Trucking association was successful in getting there to allow safety technologies and driving tools to monitor driver monitoring tools to be put into the trucks of their lease owner operators without that being considered controlled. Now we know that's what this all comes down to. Can you prove that you're independent and the carrier isn't controlling you? Now, if you're in a lease that follows all the leasing rules and regulations that Oida fought so hard to get, then you should be an independent. You're an independent contractor. Lewie Pugh: You're an owner operator. If you start, we feel if you're a motor carrier and you start making your owner operators, put in driver facing cameras, put speed limiters on their trucks, require all this other safety technology that isn't regulation. It's just driver management or monitoring tools or fuel management or whatever. That's all these are for big fleets. If you start making your own operators have these, then you're controlling those people. You got more control than what you're allowed to ha. Than what's required by law, I guess would be the right thing. So the new law, plus it was pretty much cut and dry. Lewie Pugh: They looked at some things and this, you either are or you aren't. Like just one or three little levels. The new regulation, we worked with the Department of Labor, we gave them lots of comments on trucking and they took those comments and they put those in a bill. We wanted multiple factors. So you can't just. There's like six factors in the new rule. Six, I think it's six or seven. But there's six or seven new factors in a new rule. Lewie Pugh: You can't just meet one and all of a sudden you're not an independent. You have to have multiples, okay. So there has to be three or probably to be. It's kind of like a scoreboard is kind of the way we look at it. If you got four of the six or seven, then you're probably an employee. If you've only got one or two, then you're an independent contractor. Also, if you put driver management tools or control tools like speed limiters, driver face cameras and this kind of stuff in an interoperage truck, then that's, that's showing control. So they can't do that, which is what, you know, that's our biggest thing because we don't think that owner. Lewie Pugh: If an owner operator wants to put a driver Face camera, that should be his choice, not the fleet or the carrier that he's leased to. If he wants a speed limiter on his truck, that should be his choice, not the carrier that he's leased to. So that's the big difference. Now what my beginning statement this probably is, somebody's going to sue somebody and if this becomes law and it'll have to all go to court and get played out in the court and you know, when you go to a court, whether it's right or wrong, it can all get changed and who knows what will happen. But we are stand 110% behind where we stand. This is actually better for small business carriers and owner operators, at least the big carriers. And what I tell everybody, if you are compliant before the IC rule under the Trump administration, you're going to be compliant. Now this big scare tactic is, that's just what it is, a scare. Lewie Pugh: It's this simple. Have a lease that meets the leasing requirements because that's the law. That's what we should be doing anyway. Yeah, don't try to put driver management tools in your truck and your own operators trucks and you'll be fine. That's simple. Jared Flinn: Yeah. The other one I want to talk to and maybe you guys are doing stuff on this or not. I don't know the question. But one of the bigger factors, it just seems like keeps getting worse and worse. There are these nuclear verdicts or these billboard attorneys going after these truckers and I can't tell you, you know, I mentioned earlier, we also have an insurance agency that we run here and write insurance. But these guys and getting in and don't get me wrong, every, there's different situations with every wreck. But like some of these payouts and these drivers and their renewal time, they can't be in business anymore. We've had this, I've seen more drivers even this past year, they can't afford the insurance alone to stay in business. Jared Flinn: Is Ooida doing anything to help combat that? Lewie Pugh: Yeah, I mean the biggest way to combat that, I mean there's, this is kind of a two pronged approach. The biggest thing we've got to watch out for moving forward and depending on who wins Congress and the presidency and everything here in a couple weeks is going to the insurance minimums. Highway bill preparation starts next year. You know, they pass a highway bill every five years. That's where trucking bills and trucking stuff come good and bad. You know, usually either comes and comes and wins or comes and dies in Washington D.C. the one thing you know, we saw this year they got no traction. But we're probably, we've seen this in every highway bill for the last few years and in between is insurance minimums. Lewie Pugh: This is completely driven by trial attorneys and Oida has been successful to fight that back. You know, as right now, you know all hazmat $750,000 is what you're required. There's all kinds of research and study out there showing that $750,000 covers 99.4% of all accidents, which what government regulation covers 99.4% of anything and the other 0.6%. There's no amount of money out there that could cover the amount of loss and carnage that was in that accident. So we're where we need to be. The only reason to raise this stuff is to, you know, enrich in the coffers of trial attorneys who are out there trying to get these. But yes, we push back, we talk about this. I've been on countless news shows, TV shows and everything about this kind of stuff. Lewie Pugh: This and underride guards are two really. And that's going to be something that would be terrible for bulk people to these under eye guards that they're trying to get put on trucks out there. Jared Flinn: But can you speak a little bit more on that? Because I guess I've heard of that, but I haven't heard of that recently. Lewie Pugh: Yeah, an underride guard. What I mean your ICC bumper of course is your back one. But there's safety organizations out there who want them on the sides, on the back and on the front. And they like to say, well they use these in England and other places. Well, what they use are ones for bicyclists which you know, in, in the city. So a bicycle bouncing off something's a lot different than a car. They've done some studies and tests. It's all being controlled. Lewie Pugh: It's race tracks or something like that. On sunny days, 60 degrees, 35 mile an hour hit directly 90 degree. You know, there's no FMCSA doesn't always do the best keeping track of accidents. We don't even know how many of these side under accidents there are. So it's kind of like it's a solution. It's maybe in search of a problem. We know it does happen. You know, the other problem is the, you know what I've been on, I don't know how many calls with these people trying to work with them and with government, but bringing up the fact that there's an operational challenge to these things for a lot of Guys, I use bulk stuff all the time because like hopper bottoms. Lewie Pugh: If you have this thing on the side, this cage thing, how do they get in there? You know, I know you got your crank, but it's going to make it tough to get in there or you have to pull over pit docks and stuff, you're going to drag that stuff or, you know, or on dump trucks. How does it work on a frameless dump and how does it work on aluminum trailers if these things are steel? Because steel and aluminum. And then I bring up the fact of what happens in the wintertime when it's covered with snow and metal has different braking strengths at 10 below zero than it does at 80 degrees. There's all these factors that come into play. Jared Flinn: I think additional weight that it adds to that truck. And again on our, our guys that are hauling bulk, it's, I mean it's, it's all a weight game. Lewie Pugh: Exactly. And it's the same for me when I was in a steel hauling business. Weight, the extra weight that you put on the truck, you could make it to where we have to put more trucks on the road. So how's that safer? So there's all. Plus the big thing is what about railroad hangups? Because if you have these things on the side, guys are going to get center hung on railroad tracks. And we know there's only two things that move them, trains or a wrecker. And we hope it's the latter, not the first. But you know, it happens. Lewie Pugh: So this, like the insurance, it's just crazy. And I mean we, it's just, it's just crazy because you know, we can strengthen the back bumper and do some things, but you, we have to be realistic. And then what's the unintended consequences? It's one thing, a car driving at a 90 degree angle straight into the side of semi and God forbid, stuff like that. And I know it happens, but what happens when that car hits at a 60 degree angle or a 45 degree angle? It's now going to become a 70 mile an hour pinball going down. So you know how many unintended consequences of people getting killed that wouldn't have been killed if it hadn't, you know, and again, we don't, I mean there's no trucker out there. I say this every time. There's no trucker out there. Doesn't concern about say I have two and a half million safe miles myself. Lewie Pugh: I'm proud of that. And there's not a trucker who wakes up in the morning wanting to kill Anybody they care about safety, the highway is their office. There's nobody who cares about highway safety more than truckers. We know in a split second you, you can lose everything you have and it not even your fault because somebody, some car or something does something stupid. And you know, and these nuclear verdicts, it's just crazy. And the other thing we need to do is we need to start hitting our states with tort reform. I had a conversation with some folks in Missouri because that's what's happened. That's where these lawyers have come from. Lewie Pugh: The medical industry got tort reform which controls what you can sue for and all this kind of stuff. So that's not such a, that's not the fresh meat that it once was. So now trucking is the new fresh meat for trial attorneys. And you know, and the next, and the next thing we're going to see is this product liability stuff coming into our industry. And what's going to happen with this product liability lawsuits like the one we just saw with Walbash trailer a couple weeks ago. There's going to be a lot of this safety technology that we've been fighting back against like aebs and some stuff that are now options on a lot of trucks that I feel are going to become. You're not going to get the choice to turn it off or get rid of it or not even get it because the fat companies, OEMs and stuff, excuse me, are probably going to be concerned that if they don't put this stuff on the truck and sell it to make you buy it, they're going to get sued for offering as an option because that's what pretty much that's what this whole Wabash case for a half a billion dollars came down to there a month or so ago. If you're aware. Jared Flinn: Explain that one. And we're getting kind of close on time here but explain that Wabash one because I haven't heard of that one. Lewie Pugh: What happened was a guy somewhere around St. Louis was rear ended bright sunny day by two guys in a car that were drunk. Killed them both. They ended up getting taking them to court. Of course you know, the new thing now is the lawyers sue everybody, you know, because you know, maybe trucker doesn't have much money but the broker, the freight, you know, whoever owned the freight, but the equipment manufacturer, the equipment manufacturer, the trailer was 20 years old, 20 year old wall bash trailer rear ended in bright daylight by two drunk drivers. They sued, they end up suing Wall bash wall by somewhere along the way made the mistake of telling someone, and I don't know who, that yes, the bumpers on that, on their trailers were built to meet manufacturing specs in the United States, which they were. Which that's all you should be required. But it could have built them stronger. Lewie Pugh: But they didn't. They had an option that you could buy them to have. If you wanted to buy that trailer and have a stronger ICC bumper, you could buy it. But on all trailers they built the one that standard that met the specs put out there by the federal government. And so what they did was they collected and of course Wabash is appealing this, but my understanding is what Walmart, what they said was, well, Wabash knew that this trailer bumper could have been made stronger. And. But they decided, but instead of doing the right thing, they just made it to meet manufacturer specs. And the $455 million is supposedly the amount of money Wabash has saved over the last 20 years by not producing a heavy, heavier bumper. Lewie Pugh: That's not required. Jared Flinn: So, and again, this, this is going to come out later. But like, so where is that in court? I mean, are they found, did they get found guilty? Lewie Pugh: They were found guilty. That's what they were. The plants or whatever were awarded. But. Oh, but they are now appealing this, of course. Right. So we'll have to see what happens in appeal. I mean it was in St. Lewie Pugh: Louis county here in Missouri, which I guess is not a very. Is. I mean, if you want to sue somebody for something like that, that's where to go, you know. You know, but a bleeding heart court, I guess. Jared Flinn: But that's a new one. Now the actual. Lewie Pugh: But that goes back to my point, these product liability cases are becoming a big thing. And what's going to happen, you're not going to get an option on this stuff. These manufacturers are just going to make you take it and you're going to have to deal with it. And some of this stuff works, some of it doesn't work. You know, I think we can argue abs, I mean, there's all these false activations that we're hearing about all over the country. Who wants that stuff? And a lot, again, a lot of this stuff is driver management tools and owner operator doesn't need. But the sad thing is, and I remind people this all time, if you buy a new truck and you don't get this, and God forbid something happens, and I'm not telling you to get it because I don't necessarily know what I'd get it. But, but the thing, the chance you're taking. Lewie Pugh: If something happens, God forbid, and you go into court, you. There's a trial attorney that's going to probably say, hey, you could have got this safety technology on your truck, and you chose not to. So that makes you an unsafe carrier, don't you think? Jury. And there's a lot of jury. And you can't. You can't explain in court why you didn't get. You can't say a B's, and you can't get in at what's. Because juries will never understand that you'll lose them. Lewie Pugh: So, I mean, it's sad, but that's where we're getting with all these. All these lawyers and all this stuff. Jared Flinn: Wow. Well, I hate to end on that note, but it sounds like the OIDA has the work cut out for them in the long run. I mean, with this stuff coming in, because, again, we see the same challenges every day. And, you know, this is. We've had kind of an oddball year, but, man, this struggle is real out there for these small guys. Lewie Pugh: We do. But, you know, how we win is we got the greatest members and greatest truckers in our membership, and there's a lot more great truckers out there that we need to join us. The big we don't have the money of the American Trucking association and some of these other organizations out there that we're fighting, but we do have the votes and we have the grassroots, and we know we've shut down phones on Capitol Hill a few times and years passed over things, and we can do it again when we need to. And that's the important part of being about oid. When I can walk into a lawmaker's office and say, I have 150,000 members, or I'd like to say 250,000 members, and I have, you know, 6,000 in your state, a thousand in your district. That goes a long way, you know, and to be. And for members to be in and not only be a member but be involved, we make it very easy. We have a website out there called fightingfortruckers.com besides our oida.com but you can go to that website, member or not, you can see all the stuff that you and I have been talking about and other stuff that we're working on on Capitol Hill. Lewie Pugh: There's a place there that you can fill in your information. It'll tell you who your lawmakers all are, from local all the way to federal. And you can also send them notes on all this stuff. And what I tell people is you can go on there and send a message about a bill because a lot of this stuff's already pre filled out. You can add what you want or edit it how you want, but you can send a message to a lawmaker in the same amount of time, if not faster than you can post something on Facebook or complain to your buddy about on a CB or to Truck Stop. And by sending it to a lawmaker, it might do some good. When we all complain to each other on social media, doesn't really help but just make us feel good, I guess. So that's the thing. Lewie Pugh: Be a member, be involved. And the other thing that makes a lot of difference, you can pick up the phone any day of the week. You can call in here, talk to all these people. I told you, you can call and talk to me. You can call and talk to Todd Spencer, you know, your president, our president. However you want to look at it, we're all reachable and we love to talk to you. And like I said, you've seen me, I'm at truck shows. Talk to truck shows. Lewie Pugh: So we're out there with him. We're on the same level as you all and we're fighting for you all. We're proud to do it. Jared Flinn: Yeah, that's awesome. Well, yeah, that's a perfect way to end the note. We'll put those links in the episode notes below. So if you're listen now, we'll put both those links where you can get on there and quickly click over and get on to the Oida. Louie, man, I can't thank you enough for coming on today. I've learned a lot actually and man, I'm glad you shared that. I only wish I would have done this even years back. And actually I was a Oida member for a while when we started Bulk Loads. Jared Flinn: I need to probably renew or update my subscription on there because I can remember always getting the magazine. I always enjoyed the magazine just to see what was going on. But we know that it's a, a, it's a big sector of what we do on bulk. Many of our guys that we represent are part of the Oida, so we want to, we want to help them out as well and join forces. So man, next time I'm driving through Kansas City, I'm going to swing on in. I'll give you a heads up. But yeah, would love to meet you and your team and, and learn a little bit more. But yeah, so yeah. Jared Flinn: With that said, Louie, thank you so much for coming on the Bulk Loads podcast. I'm sure we'll be hearing from you again. Lewie Pugh: Thank you. And thanks to all the truckers out. We appreciate what you do and thanks keep this country moving. Jared Flinn: Tyler, great conversation with Louis. He's just a down to earth guy. Like, he's a good boy. Like when I know the title says Executive Vice President, but when you talk to him, he doesn't. He is. And not downgrading that, but man, he's just a good old boy. You talk to him about anything. Tyler: Yeah. You know that you're talking to one of us, like, and, and it's so nice to know that that guy's in D.C. and he's going to the courts and he's actually, I was fighting for truckers. Jared Flinn: I was watching some of the footage actually that they had, it was on YouTube of him up there speaking on Capitol Hill. And that was really impressive. Tyler: Yeah, very cool. I also thought it was super nice of them to offer $10 off of their membership to anybody who listens to this podcast, calls them, wants to get signed up and tells them that they saw this podcast. So very nice of them to make. Jared Flinn: Sure and do that. And we'll put the links down below to click to their site. But yeah, make sure and mention that. And yeah, every little bit helps. Tyler: Yeah. And one thing that he mentioned too is whenever he was talking about their safety and compliance department, like for $45 a year, it's, you get your own safety. Like there is a no brainer. I just also want to plug that. We kind of do that here. You know, if you're a vocalist member and you have any questions, our permitting entity, we have Tanner Batten leading that up. But we kind of do the same thing here. If you have any questions relating safety. Tyler: Safety. Tanner is be, he's an expert in that stuff now and he would be happy to talk to you and answer any questions that you have. Jared Flinn: Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that. Yeah. The other thing I was going to say, the only thing I, I, I didn't want to debate him on the show about that, but like the whole weight limits. Tyler: Yeah. Jared Flinn: I was like, ah. And I know even some of our members, I get some flack on that. But like I'm still for higher weight limits. And again, more of these truckers, I even go and visit some of these guys that are hauling heavier weight. It's like, it's a way that you can still be more competitive out there. Tyler: Yep. Jared Flinn: And it means more business versus the railroad. So, so that's a debate for another time. But that was the Only thing that I kind of got stuck on and I understand, you know, but heavier weight even means less trucks on the road. Tyler: Yep. Jared Flinn: Less volume, so more efficiency. And I think I'm for that. Tyler: Yeah, same. Jared Flinn: Yeah. Awesome. A couple things before we get out of here. Yeah, we said it earlier. Conference is right around the corner. I was surprised. We already have a lot of people signed up. Lewie Pugh: Yeah. Tyler: And that's one thing that I just did want to mention is I know a lot of people kind of wait a little bit to get their tickets, but I want to say that you don't want to wait to book your hotel room. We are getting a lot of rooms booked up and we want to make sure that you're able to get a room there. We are offering 50% off room rates. If you go to the conference website, use the booking link there, you can get your hotel rate for 50% off. So make sure to go ahead and book your hotel room and while you're at it, go ahead and buy tickets to the conference. Jared Flinn: And this is at a Hilton hotel. Yeah, this is a really, really nice. Tyler: Yeah, it's super nice. I've stayed there before and. And it's really nice. Jared Flinn: Yeah. Get your book. I know last year that was a problem. Tyler: The. Jared Flinn: The rooms that we had slotted off booked up fast and we had some people scrambling to find rooms. So at least get your hotel room booked right now at the very, you know, at the very least before they. Tyler: This thing. This hotel has a steakhouse in it, man. Jared Flinn: Oh, yeah. Tyler: Level three. Lewie Pugh: Yeah. Tyler: Level two or level three. Yeah, yeah. Jared Flinn: I've been. Tyler: Got a st. That's enough for me. I'm getting a room. Jared Flinn: Very cool. Tyler: What else we are going to. I was going to go ahead and plug this. We're going to be at the Nebraska Ag Expo December 9th or December 10th through the 12th. So if you're going to be up there in the Lincoln, Nebraska area, I know we're going to see a lot of friends there. Corn Husker guys will be there. Tempty's going to have a booth right next to us. So we're excited to go up there. We're going to have about 10 guys go up there. Tyler: We'll have a booth. Booth. We're going to have a truck in our booth. Hummus Trucking. One of our members, they're going to put one of their. Yeah. Show rigs in our booth. So super excited for that. Tyler: But definitely come and hang out with us. We want to talk with you. We want to give you some. Some swag. We'll take some semi sand books up there to give away. So super excited about that. We'll have smart freight insurance. Everybody up there. Jared Flinn: Awesome. Tyler: Other than that, I do want to mention our calendars. We mentioned the 2025 calendars before but we actually have that link below. So if you scroll down in the description, whether you're listening on Spotify or YouTube, definitely drop down the description, you'll see that link. All you have to do is just give us your address and we will send you a calendar completely free. Jared Flinn: Very cool. Oh, I was going to mention this too. We said this in the last podcast but I want to keep reiterating. Man, if you were coming through the Springfield area, we would love you to stop by. I know a lot of people are have commitments or short time limits but come by and visit our office. We're kind of right smack kind of on the south side. Easy way you can get in with a truck pretty easy. We've had several guys have stopped by before but man, we would love for you to stop by number one, just to meet you. Jared Flinn: We'd love to gift you with some stuff but also if you'd be willing to come on the podcast and share. I know we've had a lot of big guests on but we've had more requests that people want to even have a have more of our members on in small businesses because we know the heart of a lot of our members are kind of the more small business owners we want to showcase some of them. I know again most of our small businesses, they're doing everything. They're driving the truck, they're running the show. There's very, they're very sensitive on time. But man, if you would give us an hour of your day and especially if you're coming to the Springfield area, we would love to meet you and take you to lunch. Whatever we can do. So yeah, just throw that out there. Jared Flinn: Comment down below or reach out to us at Podcast Bulk loads and man would love to have you stop by. Tyler: Awesome. Jared Flinn: I did have a guy last week said that he was gonna stop by. Tyler: Yeah, very nice that before. Jared Flinn: So cool. Anything else before we head out of here? Tyler: I think that's it. Jared Flinn: Awesome. Oh yeah, real quick too. I don't know if you saw that Peter or the Jonabilt. Little real. Tyler: Yes. Jared Flinn: I think it went viral. Tyler: It did so. Jared Flinn: And Joe, as you know I've been traveling a lot. We were up in Pennsylvania, Lancaster County. I already talked about that last week but Joe put that little short out. He's still working on the big video. But also we. Those videos are going to be coming out and getting featured by the end of this month. Month. So stay tuned to that. Jared Flinn: Also, we would love to come visit you. I just said come here. But if you, if your company would like to be featured, reach out to us. There's a fill out or there's a sign up form that you can do and we'd love to get that. We already have a December 1st planned, but we don't have anything planned in January or February, so we're looking for some slots to spill. So if you're especially in the southern region, maybe down in Florida or California, let us come out out there. January, February. I'm joking. Jared Flinn: We'll do it anywhere else. But yeah, make sure you do that. Tyler: Yeah, very cool. Jared Flinn: Okay, cool. Well, as we do every week, we close out in prayer. Again, we don't do this for show or recognition, but we really do this to talk about that. Everything that we do at this organization is to glorify God and to serve people and serve them and point them toward Jesus. We know people are at different levels and we don't want to offend anybody. If you're not at that point in your life, maybe you're kind of weary, don't quite understand that is okay. But it's something that we do here because we feel like we are part of the body of Christ and with our members, so we give all the glory to him. But also, if you are struggling out there, we would love to pray for you. Jared Flinn: Maybe you're struggling and not don't even believe in prayer and all that. Tell us what you're battling with us. Let us at least take those issues or problems and pray over those for you. It'd be something that we do because we feel that prayers get answered and we want to be a part of that. So just saying that out there, you can send any kind of prayer request to prayeroloads.com we those are anonymous. We keep them within the office and we have a team that gets assigned to those and they pray over them for weeks, if not months. So just kind of keep that in mind. Tyler: Yeah, we'd be honored to. Yep. Jared Flinn: With that said, I will close this out. Father God, we love you. Lord, we thank you for this day and we thank you for this week. Lord, we know that we are getting into the holiday season and Lord, we know that this time of year gets busy. We know it can be a time of joy, but it can also be a time of sorrow for people with loss, with family members that are lost or even ones that have passed away. So Lord, we pray over this industry. We pray as we go through this season of holidays, Lord, that it's filled with joy and hope. But Lord, we also want to acknowledge those out there that are suffering and with pain. Jared Flinn: Lord, we pray over our President elect, Donald Trump, Lord, we pray that he guides this country, Lord, that we pray that your hand be upon him and his cabinet picks and all that. And Lord, Lord, we thank you just again for the blessings that you've done for our industry and this business in your heavenly and precious name. Amen. Thank you as always for listening to the Bulk Loads podcast. If you haven't yet, make sure and hit the little subscribe button down below. That way you don't miss an episode. And if you have just one person, just one person you can share this with just as a thank you from us. We'd love to do that to get this in the hands of others. Jared Flinn: So man, if you can do us one quick favorite at this time, takes less than two seconds to do. Hit the share button, send one person. We appreciate it. Thank you very much. And as always, God bless.